35 paki soldiers killed in DARGAI

[farzad khan Armani]

the nation,
35 soldiers killed in army training center suicide attack.
MALAKAND:Thirty five paki soldiers were killed and several others injured in a suicide attack in Dargai area of malakand on wednesday.

The blast was occurred at 0840 am on wednesday morning at punjab regiment training area in Dargai.
according to the initial reports it was a suicide attack ,ispr said in a statement.
A man wrapped in cloak came running into the training area and exploded himself where recuits had gathered for training ,,the statment said.

the injureds have been admitted at hospitals of mardan,mangora and peshwar.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
just week ago paki army killed children under 10 in bajawor and now they pay back for thier crime against huminity.
good on those pakhtuns who carried out attack on punjabis.
this will be the start of war for free pashtunistan.
once again the great nation of pukhtuns prove that they always take revenge from thier enemeis no matter how the enemy is strong.

[MandoKhail]

If they were all punjabi's as this suicide attack was on punjab regment training ground then i am happy and proude of that person who has done it,but,if pashtoon's are among dead then i am so sad as again on both side pashtoon's are getting killed.

[Zahid Buneray]

Punjab Regement is just a name and I think, they don't sent only punjabies there.

Anyway, if this is a reaction of bajawar incident, then we can say, the claim of the governemnt officials that there were terrorists in bajawar madrasa, can be true as that's how it was reacted.

Anyway, things are not going well and I affraid that it will take us to no-man rule and "war lords" culture.

[MandoKhail]

Punjab Regement is just a name and I think, they don't sent only punjabies there.

Anyway, if this is a reaction of bajawar incident, then we can say, the claim of the governemnt officials that there were terrorists in bajawar madrasa, can be true as that's how it was reacted.

Anyway, things are not going well and I affraid that it will take us to no-man rule and "war lords" culture.
agreed,i was worried and now according to BBC pashto quoting eyewitnesses that there were more pashtoons in injured and dead ppl.Rahimulah yousafzy told bbc that unknown ppl phone him and claim responsibility for carrying this attack,according to him that guy was talking in pashto and he told that they are pakistani taliban and this attack is reaction of bajawarr.
Things are getting worst.

[Hairan]

دوستانو سلامونه
د غلطو پاليسو نتيجې همداسې وي. د درګۍ په ځانمرګي بريد کښې دوه څلوېښت فوجيان وژل شوي دي او چې سړے ورته په غور سره وګوري نو که د باجوړ بمباري وه او که د درګۍ ځانمرګى بريد او که په افغانستان کښې روانه دهشت ګردي او د دهشت ګردۍ په خلاف جنګ، ټول د پښتنو په تاوان روان دي. ځکه چې د هرې خوا نه پښتون وژل کېږي او تباه کېږي خو څوک شته چې د دې خلاف ودرېږي؟ نه -- وجه ئې دا ده چې پښتون په ډېرو زنځيرونو کښې تړل شوے دے او په داسې نفسياتي غلامۍ کښې ساتل شوے دے چې د ځان په حقله د سوچ کولو صلاحيت هم نۀ لري.
کۀ سړے يواځې د دې وروستيو پېښو جاج واخلي نو هم په دې نتيجه رسېږي. په افغانستان کښې جهاد او بيا د جهاد نتيجه دواړه د پښتون په قتل عام تمام شول. د طالبانو دور خو د پښتنو د قتل عام سره سره د پښتنو کلتور، تاريخ، ثقافت او اقدار هم له منځه يوړل. وروستے دور نور هم سخت داسې راغے چې افغانستان ته راغلي بهرني قوتونه هم پښتانه وژني او طالبان چې کومې حملې کوي په هغې کښې هم پښتانه وژل کېږي. خو چونکې دواړو خواوو ته روان جنګ د بېلابېلو قوتونو سرپرستي هم لري نو په دغه لاره کښې دا نوې پېښې رامنځته کېدل يو نوے هدف لري.
په افغانستان کښې د طالبانو مخ په زياتېدونکي قوت امريکا او د افغانستان حکومت دواړه پرېشانه کړل او ټولې دنيا په يو غږ سره وويل چې پاکستان د طالبانو ملاتړ کوي. امريکا، اتحاديانو او د افغانستان حکومت بيا بيا کوشش وکړ چې پاکستان د طالبانو د ملاتړ نه لاس واخلي خو پاکستان کله په يوه او کله په بله بهانه ځان ناجاڼه کړ او په هره سطحه ئې د افغانستان د حکومت د کمزوري کولو او امريکې ته په افغانستان کښې د ماتې ورکولو کوشش جاري وساتلو. امريکا چې ښه يقيني شوه چې پاکستان په لاره نۀ راځي نو په باجوړ کښې ئې په مدرسه بمباري وکړه او د پاکستان پوځ دغه اقدام ځکه په خپله غاړه واخيست چې بله هيڅ لاره ئې نۀ لرله. په دې طريقه امريکا په کاميابۍ سره د پاکستان پوځ او مليان په جنګ وروستل. د دې نه مخکښې د اکبر بګټي وژل او ځينې دهماکې هم د دې سلسلې کړۍ وې. اوس ګوره چې پاکستان خپله افغان پاليسي بدلوي او په خپله تګلاره بيا غور کوي که نۀ خو دا يوه خبره ثابته ده چې په کويټه کښې د يوې درنې چاودنې، په پېښور کښې د پرله پسې دهماکو او باجوړ او درګۍ پېښو سره په افغانستان کښې د طالبانو حملې نيم په نيمه کمې شوې. د ډيورنډ لاين د دواړو غاړو د قبايلو د جرګو پورې د دې سلسلې نتيجې راوتلے شي خو د حامد کرزي او محمود خان اچکزي خبرې رښتيا ثابتې شوې. حامد کرزي په امريکه کې جنرل مشرف ته ويلي وو چې کوم ماران تۀ ساتې دا به يوه ورځ تاته هم ټک درکړي. او محمود خان اچکزي ويلي وو چې فوج د پاکستان عوامو ته خو بيا بيا دهوکه ورکولے شي ولې امريکې ته ئې نشي ورکولے.
په هر حال، دا چې دواړو خواوو ته په دې روانه لوبه کښې پښتانه مري نو د مشرف ورباندې هيڅ طبيعت خراب نۀ دے، پښتانۀ بايد پخپله د دې خلاف يؤ څۀ اقدام وکړي.

[Hairan]

be proud of pashto
say,,no,,to farsi/dari and urdu.


هلکه ارماني صيب دا انګلش درنه ولې هېر شوے دے؟

[Khan Baba]

As long as Govt doest revitalize its policy or the paradigm of its strategy of dealing with terrorist, we may face such horrible incidents in future as well.
Unfortunately, on the both the occasions, Pukhtuns suffered. Even in this very suicidal attack, there were 18 Pukhtun Army soldiers.

[Roots]

khwago wrunro (i see no woman here on this topic) salamoona:

i have joined this forum after a long long time after putting my summer travelogues in order and submitting to the travel company that i work for.

this topic was of interest to me.

once i was going for shopping in abu dhabi (2001) wearing an abaya i took a taxi. the taxi driver turned out to be someone from swat though mostly they were from kurram area. after a while i gave him directions in my heavily accented english-pushto mix. he got surprised and said he thought i was lebanese or something. so as a joke i said lebanese and me? can't you see i am dressed up in abaya in anticipation that talaibans will come to rule in pakistan soon.

at this the taxi driver, an old beared namaazi man said, do you know what talibans mean - they mean no women going out without her man, no music, no movies, no sports, no eating out, no picnics, no education for women, no nothing. i kept silent.

zama wrunro, now i come to you asking whether you will be able to live with taliban rule? don't you think talibans are too harsh for this day? will they not try to enforce their islam on the rest of us? what if they decide to convert all non-muslims (i.e. muslims that they declare non-muslims) into their form of islam forcefully or alternatively kill them? what if they decide that shia muslims of afghanistan and pakistan are non-muslims and 'wajib qatal"? what if they decide that kafir kalash have to be converted to islam just like the nooristanis were forcefully converted to islam by their forefather 150 years ago?

talibani rule will mean total darkness, no economic development, no social development.

so don't you think that talibans are wrong and anyone supporting them will be in the wrong too?

if talibans mean islam to rule, how can we condone a suicide attack made on poor young people still under training and many of them pushtoons?

then there are people on this board who are claiming that if punjabis have been killed then it is fine. now i think this makes me support talibans with a pinch of salt, because if they come to power then people like this man on this board will be put before death squad first of all, because talibans will not condone racial and ethnic hatred.

regardz,

farah kk.

[MandoKhail]

talibani rule will mean total darkness, no economic development, no social development.

so don't you think that talibans are wrong and anyone supporting them will be in the wrong too?

if talibans mean islam to rule, how can we condone a suicide attack made on poor young people still under training and many of them pushtoons?

.
Ws and WCB after long time,stharray massai.

Taliban is the creation of ISI and these suicide attacks are cordinated by pakistani ISI in Afghanistan with the help Osama bin ISI bin punjabistan & Co,pakistan is trying to prove that MMA and ISI+Punjabi's dont have same interests and they are not allie's but infact they are together in these barberic incidents if it is in Afghanistan,if it is bajawarr or if it is dargai ,it made me sadden when i see on both side pashtoon's blood has no worth as they are the victime's of pakistani proxy war against united stats and punjabistan war against pashtoon's on both side to refrain them from reunification.

[Roots]

Ws and WCB after long time,stharray massai.

Taliban is the creation of ISI and these suicide attacks are cordinated by pakistani ISI in Afghanistan with the help Osama bin ISI bin punjabistan & Co,pakistan is trying to prove that MMA and ISI+Punjabi's dont have same interests and they are not allie's but infact they are together in these barberic incidents if it is in Afghanistan,if it is bajawarr or if it is dargai ,it made me sadden when i see on both side pashtoon's blood has no worth as they are the victime's of pakistani proxy war against united stats and punjabistan war against pashtoon's on both side to refrain them from reunification.

Mando:

khudai de mal sha awo pa khair ossay.

yours is a heavy duty post that is self-contradictory in nature. if talibans, ISI, OBL and punjabis are in it together then it means that it is sort of pushtoon- punjabi-arab nexus against "pushtoons" as you say. so in essence you are suggesting it is pushtoon talibans against other pushtoons.

if i take the views expressed by people on this board like tatara and you then this talibans, ISI, OBL and punjabis coalition seems to be failing because more people are now talking about pushtoon unification rather than separation. this does not make sense to me as it runs contradictory to what you are suggesting.

my take on the matter is simple: pakistan is a powerful nuclear state and it can easily go into the hands of "extremist" talibans, because talibans have support from the "extremist religious element" of almost all ethnic groups of pakistan. the west realises it and it wants separation of pushtoons and balochistan from the rest of pakistan so that the residual pakistan retains nuclear arsenal but at the same time is weak enough so as to not offer any resistance to the powers that be. pushtoons and baloch on the other hand will self-disintegrate because of tribal differences and lack of civic society, as they are in afghanistan.

think about it.

regardz,

[Roots]

The worst fears are coming true.
When American launched missile attack on innocent Pukhtun children of Madrassah and instead of protesting against the US strikes at international forum, Pakistan put the entire blame on its armed forces, this was to happen and God forbid may happen again and again.
As long as Govt doest revitalize its policy or the paradigm of its strategy of dealing with terrorist, we may face such horrible incidents in future as well.
Unfortunately, on the both the occasions, Pukhtuns suffered. Even in this very suicidal attack, there were 18 Pukhtun Army soldiers.

Khan baba, salamz:

i raised this issue over phone last sunday with the husband of my husband's sister (wow what a twister). he is also a khattak in pakistan airforce posted in some sumagalli city near quetta. he said that the government of pakistan said if there are children dead in the attack then please parents approach us to claim the dead bodies. now this was a clever move. the government knew that if children died then parents will come forward and appear in media and elsewhere. you know what? none parents appeared, proving that there were no children killed.

secondly, i was listening to pakistani news casually day before yesterday. the government has released the ID numbers of all those killed. again, no children.

i really hope there were no children involved, but i am amazed at the negative propaganda and the attendant emotional outbursts from people everywhere as if they saw children dying in front of them.

also, you mentioned in 2nd paragraph that pakistan revitalizes its policy of dealing with terrorists. i would like to hear your views. what do you suggest pakistan do with terrorists?

stasso khor
farah

[Khan Baba]

Well, in your first paragraph you didnt mention the incident you were referring to, there were two, Bajawar and Dargai, but probably you are talking about Bajawar.
Yes children were there, I met two individuals from Bajawar and they have confirmed. The parents will never claim anything, they have already received their dear ones and buried them, moreover they are now in open revolt against govt, there is no question for asking the dead bodies, by the way, where are the dead bodies? They are already buried by their parents.
About your second question. Just analyse the development.
When the govt decided to use force against the so called terrorists, there was one man against the decision and that was then Corps Commander Lt Gen Aurakzai. Accordingly he was removed from his appointment and govt vigorously pursued their aim of using force. After the bitter experience with Tribals, govt realized their mistake and place the same individual (then Corps Commander) as Governor of the province in order to deal with the terrorist according to his plan. The day he resumed the command, he made truce with tribals (supporters of Taliban) and the peace came into the troubled area.
There is only one option to deal with your own people and that is dialogue. Infact we as a nation dont learn lessons, otherwise after 71 debacle no body should have ever opted for use of force against own people and that too tribals, no way.
Secondly, by now, every body know that the attack on madrassah was actually launched by America and not Pakistan Army, they why should we put the entire blame on the army.

[MandoKhail]

Khan baba, salamz:

i raised this issue over phone last sunday with the husband of my husband's sister (wow what a twister). he is also a khattak in pakistan airforce posted in some sumagalli city near quetta. he said that the government of pakistan said if there are children dead in the attack then please parents approach us to claim the dead bodies. now this was a clever move. the government knew that if children died then parents will come forward and appear in media and elsewhere. you know what? none parents appeared, proving that there were no children killed.

secondly, i was listening to pakistani news casually day before yesterday. the government has released the ID numbers of all those killed. again, no children.

i really hope there were no children involved, but i am amazed at the negative propaganda and the attendant emotional outbursts from people everywhere as if they saw children dying in front of them.

also, you mentioned in 2nd paragraph that pakistan revitalizes its policy of dealing with terrorists. i would like to hear your views. what do you suggest pakistan do with terrorists?

stasso khor
farah
Why our pashtoon's dont have thier independent analysis's? they change thier minds according to PTV,Geo,BBC URDU propaganda,why they dont think independently?This is our problume as all the time we are confused.

[akhan]

The Governement does not care , thay are not bothered about our people. Could u all read the following article.How our people are paying the price for being in Pakistan and be in the middle of this war.

I read this letter in daily Dawn and was surprised that it was written by someone who lives inMardan

A SUICIDE bomber killed 42 army men in Dargai. Besides the killing of soldiers who were supposed to die in defence of our country, I was shocked that this terrible incident happened very close to my hometown Mardan. The government must seriously re-think its policy towards extremism-turned-terrorism in Pakistan.

I don’t understand why many people cannot accept the fact that these extremists are terrorists and some madressahs are terror training camps. While socio-economic conditions are responsible for families sending their children to such places, there is no justification for them to become killers.

These leaders who preach hatred are the biggest hypocrites themselves. I personally know many such leaders who would on one hand incite others into sending their sons to madressahs and locking their daughters inside the boundaries of their homes but send their own children to foreign universities. They quote examples of the Prophet (pbuh) to reflect the significance of jihad but live in large bungalows and move around in expensive cars. If jihad is such a great thing to die for, why don’t they do it themselves?

I strongly urge those who think the Bajaur operation was a brutality to use their heads. I strongly support it no matter who was behind it. Pakistanis should support General Musharaf in his war against these elements. These fanatics have turned our lives into hell both inside and outside of Pakistan and we must get rid of them at the earliest.

NAVEED ALI
Manchester, UK

wha do u think of it, now read this




Bajaur attack evidence was given by US



By our correspondent

WASHINGTON: The Pakistan authorities had little choice but to bomb the Bajaur school site after they received ‘overwhelming proof’ from US intelligence sources that it was being used as a training centre for insurgents, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.

“They loaded us with evidence. The strike was absolutely inevitable,” said a senior intelligence official, also speaking on condition of anonymity. Another official called the attack a “major test” of military and intelligence cooperation between the United States and Pakistan. “We thought about other options, but the Americans weren’t ready to take any chances,” he said. “We were caught between the devil and the deep sea.”

“A refusal to act,” the paper quoted unnamed Pakistanis as saying, “would have badly damaged their relations with the United States.”

In a detailed report from Pamela Constable and Kamran Khan, the Post said after the Dargai suicide bombing, “officials are predicting a new wave of violence, as anti-government anger spreads and religious extremists call for holy war against the Pakistani military and Western forces fighting in Afghanistan.”

“This is a disaster. We all recognize the gravity of the situation,” a senior military official in Peshawar told the Post, speaking on condition of anonymity. “It’s a nightmare to have an army being attacked on its own soil and by its own people.” After the two incidents, he added, “the doors to peaceful negotiated settlements are closed. I am afraid we are on a war course in the tribal areas.”

The paper said public condemnation of the missile attack has been almost universal in Pakistan. Many people say they believe it was actually carried out by a U.S. Predator drone, which witnesses described as circling overhead before Pakistani helicopter gunships arrived. U.S. and Pakistani officials have denied that.

Local leaders have also vehemently asserted that the school, run by a cleric from a banned extremist group, was used only for religious studies and that many young students were killed in the strike. No physical evidence of a training camp has been publicly produced, journalists have been barred from the site, and most of the victims’ bodies were too disfigured to identify.

“What they did see was disturbing enough: a tense, angry crowd that surrounded their vehicles, shouting for holy war against the Pakistani and US governments, less than a week after local leaders had been ready to sign a peace pact with the government,” the paper reported.

“If it was a military camp, I found no sign of it. But the people were very inflamed,” said Barrister Baachaa, one of the lawyers. “Bajauris are known to be quiet and not carrying guns, but the mood is becoming very militant. If Bajaur can fall into Talibanization, so can the other tribal areas, and then I fear it can spread to the settled areas, too,” he said. “This has to be contained, but the way they did it in Bajaur has only made it worse.”

[MandoKhail]

Pakistan is using MMA to control resistence in Afghanistan and to control all pashtoon belt for future reason's as Durandline issue is still alive,here,in present situation i would not be wrong to say pakistan is using al-qaida and taliban in her proxy war against united states and afghanistan,in return if there is any pressure on ISI then they try to throw dust in to world eyes as they are not sister organisations,it is complicated scenario as ordinary men and women can't understand these tactic's but educated and wise ppl who have strong observation of current affairs can get what really is going on behind the screen,Pakistan is using pashtoons as a war amunition(spel?),how?Pakistan is using these innocent pashtoons to destabalise Afghanistan and to hit USA in her proxy war,it is two fold,Pashtoon land is the battle ground and pashtoon is the fuel for war,If pakistani agents kill any one in Afghanistan then he/she will be pashtoon,if in return Afghan forces attack then again pashtoon will be the victim's,if they kill americans or NATO then its ok and if NATO and USA bombat insurgents then again pashtoons are the victims,here pakistan is playing a very bloody game with pashtoons to weaken them,Why pakistan is doing so?
(1) To put pressure on Afghanistan to recognise durand line,
(2)To control all pashtoon belt by ISI agents as pashtoon uprising is invetible coz of exploitation and imperealist policy of pakistan towords pashtoon's.
(3)Pakistan is fighting a proxy war against USA as she is not in position to confront USA openly.
to be continued.

[Roots]

The Governement does not care , thay are not bothered about our people. Could u all read the following article.How our people are paying the price for being in Pakistan and be in the middle of this war.

I read this letter in daily Dawn and was surprised that it was written by someone who lives inMardan.......


....... Bajaur attack evidence was given by US



By our correspondent

WASHINGTON: The Pakistan authorities had little choice but to bomb the Bajaur school site after they received ‘overwhelming proof’ from US intelligence sources that it was being used as a training centre for insurgents, the Washington Post reported on Saturday...........


AKhan:

two takes from your post:

1. as indicated by the letter yoou published, pushtoons do not share the same view on bajaur attack. if some are against it then others are supporting it.

2. pakistan attacked bajaur on american pressure. a recent article in washington post stated that america once again threatened pakistan of dire consequences if bajaur was not attacked (similar to one after 9/11). pakistan government resisted and said that the usa report on terrorist training is not valid. america overruled pakistan's own investigation and threatened that if pakistan would not do it then american planes would do it. at this threat, pakistanian government led by dictator musharraf and totally incapabale of resisting any western pressure buckled.

all segments of pakistanian population have denounced this very act by a cowardly dictatorial government of musharraf.

regardz,

[Roots]

Why our pashtoon's dont have thier independent analysis's? they change thier minds according to PTV,Geo,BBC URDU propaganda,why they dont think independently?This is our problume as all the time we are confused.

Mando:

yes you are right. you must start thinking independently, using a great gift that God has given you - brains. stop using hate to guide your analysis :)

[Roots]

Well, in your first paragraph you didnt mention the incident you were referring to, there were two, Bajawar and Dargai, but probably you are talking about Bajawar...........
Secondly, by now, every body know that the attack on madrassah was actually launched by America and not Pakistan Army, they why should we put the entire blame on the army.

Khan Baba:

i believe that since you are located closer to bajawar and dargai, you may be right. the only reason to my mind for blaming army is what i wrote in response to Akhan's post above.

the problem with pakistan is the dictatorial regime of musharraf and his cohorts who cannot put any resistance to USA/UK pressure. if pakistan had democracy, the democratically elected prime minister would have put the same kind of resistance to the USA/UK neo-cons as turkish or malaysian governments put from time to time.

now look at the news reports - all segments of pakistani society have condemned the attacks, both on bajaur and dargai. this includes religious right, imran's party, ppp, nawaz, mqm and others and this represents all ethnic groups. the only support to musharraf is from within his own party - the absolue corrupt ones.

so if all ethnic groups are in it together then why are our friends on this site are propagating hatred against them.

regardz,

farah kk
regardz,

[MandoKhail]

Mando:

yes you are right. you must start thinking independently, using a great gift that God has given you - brains. stop using hate to guide your analysis :)
hahaha...O bibi gulai! as your location shows Canada so for heaven-sack stop reading & bliving a lier media JANG,PTV(punjab TV) as it is all messed with Govt propaganda.It will spoil your intelectual guts.
No one is preaching hate but some of our members have closed thier eyes from realities and still singing PAK SAR ZAMEEN SHAD BAD which is sign of lack of understanding of real issue's.
If Paki Govt let independent reporters go in to all pashtoon belt and if they will be free to report then you will see the black face of pakistan as what pakistan has done to innocent pashtoon men,women and children in these areas which are more seriuse then crime's of saddam hussain according to International law,agianst the true charter of UNO agreed HUMAN RIGHTS and against the law of humanity.So do you expact love and red roses for punjabi forces after sach atrocities?

[MandoKhail]

so if all ethnic groups are in it together then why are our friends on this site are propagating hatred against them.

regardz,

farah kk
regardz,
Miss/Mrs Farah khan khatak(dont hide word khattak in abrivation plz) we have witnessed tha reaction of punjab and punjabi's on brutal killing of Akabr bugti and then on his unhuman and unislamic buriel,and now on all incidents where pashtoons are the target,so,any insane or sensless pashtoon will use word Love for Pakistan and punjabi's.

[Roots]

If Paki Govt let independent reporters go in to all pashtoon belt and if they will be free to report then you will see the black face of pakistan as what pakistan has done to innocent pashtoon men,women and children in these areas which are more seriuse then crime's of saddam hussain according to International law,agianst the true charter of UNO agreed HUMAN RIGHTS and against the law of humanity.So do you expact love and red roses for punjabi forces after sach atrocities?

Mando:

you are coming with strange findings and an outburst of emotionalism here. don't you see that even without free press getting into the tribal belt, everyone knows the truth. everybody is crticising the corrupt and inprincipled dictatorship of musharraf and his cohorts. This dictatorial regime cannot stand for any principled stance against the neo-cons of the usa/uk. they do what they are told to do.

i was invited at a dinner yesterday. there were punjabis, mohajeers, one pushtoon family related to mr. sherapao and one sindian family (both husband and wife are medical doctors) too. all of them were lambasting musharraf and his government people on cowardly attacks on tribals. all my opinions come from listening to pakistanians speaking to each other in occasions like these. when everybody is against musharraf and his acts, except for the corrupt mnas and mpas from what is that the PLQ(?), then why should i hate punjabis and mahajeers and sindians and others. don't you think it will be unfair to those who are standing with the tribals?

place your haterd where it is due i.e. towards the current dictatorship of pakistan, not against poor masses.

regardz,

Mrs. Farah khan Khattak :)

[MandoKhail]

Mando:

you are coming with strange findings and an outburst of emotionalism here. don't you see that even without free press getting into the tribal belt, everyone knows the truth. everybody is crticising the corrupt and inprincipled dictatorship of musharraf and his cohorts. This dictatorial regime cannot stand for any principled stance against the neo-cons of the usa/uk. they do what they are told to do.

i was invited at a dinner yesterday. there were punjabis, mohajeers, one pushtoon family related to mr. sherapao and one sindian family (both husband and wife are medical doctors) too. all of them were lambasting musharraf and his government people on cowardly attacks on tribals. all my opinions come from listening to pakistanians speaking to each other in occasions like these. when everybody is against musharraf and his acts, except for the corrupt mnas and mpas from what is that the PLQ(?), then why should i hate punjabis and mahajeers and sindians and others. don't you think it will be unfair to those who are standing with the tribals?

place your haterd where it is due i.e. towards the current dictatorship of pakistan, not against poor masses.

regardz,

Mrs. Farah khan Khattak :)
Emotions are GOD given so sometime if i use it then atleast GOD will be happy as i am using it..ka sanga?:icon_biggrin:

It is not question of one person or one family it is matter of one nation as a whole,thier silence make them accolplice as thier elected Govt's or thier representatives makes criminal exploitation of other nation's if it is in militry beurocracy or if it is civil beurocracy,ordinary punjabi's and all thier elected representatives have single goal to achive which is more for punjab if it is legal or illegal.
We have seen what has happend in east pakistan(bangladesh) where same masses were silent and they give thier representative's go ahead signal's then we saw the disaster,here in our case they all are together,they have comoon object and common interests but unfortunatly pashtoons lack's idealogy of common object and common intresets as we are not thinking collectively as nation and it will result in exploitation and more killing of our ppl on both side of pashtoon land.

[DawezayMomand]

place your haterd where it is due i.e. towards the current dictatorship of pakistan, not against poor masses.
Dictatorship of Pakistan or the very Pakistan itself? Could you please show me a single fair govt. in the history of Pakistan? Before coming to the operational aspect of the state - the govt - consider for a while the very basis on which this state was created (with all knowledge of the academic degree in history). Then, the very structure of the Paki Federation: it's theoritical framework and challenges to its changes - both historical and rational (hints: 1971, the NFC Award, Division of Powers in the Consttn, the federation and working of parliamentary govt (can a parliamentary form of govt. be applied to a ferderation?), the absolute majority of one ethnic group, the natural wealth of the minor ethnic areas) . Taking a view of this syndrome (or mess, more properly) do you see any chances of a fair play in Pakistan? Kindly, illustarate with examples from your history (text) books if possible.

[Khan Baba]

Khan Baba:

i believe that since you are located closer to bajawar and dargai, you may be right. the only reason to my mind for blaming army is what i wrote in response to Akhan's post above.

the problem with pakistan is the dictatorial regime of musharraf and his cohorts who cannot put any resistance to USA/UK pressure. if pakistan had democracy, the democratically elected prime minister would have put the same kind of resistance to the USA/UK neo-cons as turkish or malaysian governments put from time to time.

I am sorry Khurakai, I am not located near these areas, rather unfortunately I have never seen them. But if you carefully read the Washington Post report posted by AKhan, it also implies that the attack was actually launched by US and not Pakistan though apparently they denied.

Secondly, I dont think so any govt in Pakistan whether military or democratic could stand to US Pressure, at least I dont remember any such example in 59 years of Pakistan's history.



now look at the news reports - all segments of pakistani society have condemned the attacks, both on bajaur and dargai. this includes religious right, imran's party, ppp, nawaz, mqm and others and this represents all ethnic groups. the only support to musharraf is from within his own party - the absolue corrupt ones.

so if all ethnic groups are in it together then why are our friends on this site are propagating hatred against them.
All the parties mentioned by you, never represent any ethnic group in Pakistan except PML, which is a Punjabi based party, having some support among the deprived nations of Pukhtuns, Sindh and Balochistan.
I think these people are represented by ANP, PMAP, BNPs, JWP, and some sindhi nationalist parties.
I think I have given this link before as well, if you read it, you will find that most of the Punjabis and Muhajirs have arbitrarily supported the US strikes on innocent Madrassah students.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=235183
Unfortunately there are some Pukhtuns as well who support the move as quoted by AKhan. Baigharat are everywhere and Paukhtuns are not exceptional, we have many among our ranks, like Mr. Armani said somewhere, Sherpao, Amir Muqam, Shamsul Mulk, and one lady dont remember her name now.
Moreover the people from Sindh are called Sindhis and not Sindians.

[akhan]

Agree with you KHANBABA, I am surprised by the hatred these people have for our people, just read another letter published in daily Dawn on 13/11/06, i have highlighted the main points



Suicide attack in Dargai



THURSDAY’S suicide attack on the armed forces brought home the dangerous nature of the elements that are being given protection by tribal leaders in FATA. It also proves that if anybody in those areas could support or give protection to such elements, they are extremely dangerous for the security of the country.

Pakistan has faced a lot of trouble because of FATA. The tribal areas are heavily armed; they are swarming with extremists, a big den where criminals can hide and are unsafe to visit. People in the area give protection to terrorists and everything about them is dangerous and bad for Pakistan. I don’t think such an archaic, backward-minded, lawless area exists anywhere in the world.
People of FATA should decide whether they want to form their own province of or join the NWFP. Either way, we should not tolerate their lawless status anymore. The Pakistani army and the government demilitarise all of those areas and enforce Pakistani law on them. We need to get rid of this menace once and for all before we get engulfed by a further escalation of terrorism inside of our own country.
SAAD W. ANSARI
Austin, USA

[MandoKhail]

Agree with you KHANBABA, I am surprised by the hatred these people have for our people, just read another letter published in daily Dawn on 13/11/06, i have highlighted the main points



Suicide attack in Dargai



THURSDAY’S suicide attack on the armed forces brought home the dangerous nature of the elements that are being given protection by tribal leaders in FATA. It also proves that if anybody in those areas could support or give protection to such elements, they are extremely dangerous for the security of the country.

Pakistan has faced a lot of trouble because of FATA. The tribal areas are heavily armed; they are swarming with extremists, a big den where criminals can hide and are unsafe to visit. People in the area give protection to terrorists and everything about them is dangerous and bad for Pakistan. I don’t think such an archaic, backward-minded, lawless area exists anywhere in the world.
People of FATA should decide whether they want to form their own province of or join the NWFP. Either way, we should not tolerate their lawless status anymore. The Pakistani army and the government demilitarise all of those areas and enforce Pakistani law on them. We need to get rid of this menace once and for all before we get engulfed by a further escalation of terrorism inside of our own country.
SAAD W. ANSARI
Austin, USA
This is the real face of pakistani's and punjabi's.Now if someone argue on behalf of punjabi's and pakistan then what you will call him/her?what will be your feelings?

[Khan Baba]

Agree with you KHANBABA, I am surprised by the hatred these people have for our people, just read another letter published in daily Dawn on 13/11/06, i have highlighted the main points



Suicide attack in Dargai



THURSDAY’S suicide attack on the armed forces brought home the dangerous nature of the elements that are being given protection by tribal leaders in FATA. It also proves that if anybody in those areas could support or give protection to such elements, they are extremely dangerous for the security of the country.

Pakistan has faced a lot of trouble because of FATA. The tribal areas are heavily armed; they are swarming with extremists, a big den where criminals can hide and are unsafe to visit. People in the area give protection to terrorists and everything about them is dangerous and bad for Pakistan. I don’t think such an archaic, backward-minded, lawless area exists anywhere in the world.
People of FATA should decide whether they want to form their own province of or join the NWFP. Either way, we should not tolerate their lawless status anymore. The Pakistani army and the government demilitarise all of those areas and enforce Pakistani law on them. We need to get rid of this menace once and for all before we get engulfed by a further escalation of terrorism inside of our own country.
SAAD W. ANSARI
Austin, USA
Believe me not a news for me. All the people living abroad are hawks by nature like their new masters in USA and British.
Infact we dont learn lessons, just compare 1971 situation, when we arbitrarily declared 'six points' as a threat to Pakistan sovereignty and integrity and consequently wage war against own people. The result you know was a debacle.
The only way to avert the lawlessness in FATA is to bring development in the region. I remember some of the notorious villages in Pukhtunkhwa, where killings and enmity was rampant in these areas but now with the influx of wealth in the area, I found these people very progressive and mature.
If the people have job and money good enough for their daily life use, I am sure no one will prefer the violence.

[akhan]

All the people living abroad are hawks by nature

Quite man I live abroad as well.

[MandoKhail]

I have an idea,if we read sach kinda letter's full of hatred and abusive language against pashtoon's then we will post it here for our members to read and reply to these letter's.This is cyber war,we are at war of words,pen,internet and media,so we should not ignore sach kind of letter's,if one true pashtoon will reply to these letters then imagin thousands of pashtoon men and women will feel proud as we have ppl who are defending thier nation on cyberworld.
I remember when i wrote one letter to F.post regarding someone's argument in favour of KBD,then you won't blive as i didn't blive my self,how many e.mails i had recived from pashtoons all arround the world as they were happy with my reply,then i read more nationalists letter from diffrent true pashtoon guy's.So please don't take it easy,this is matter of concern.

[Roots]

Mando, Khan Baba and perhaps AKhan (Tartara is plane too dumb to be addressed): salamz to all.

you guys are forgetting one thing that is there is no such thing as "baigharat Pushtoons". people have different viewpoint than ur own have to be accepted.

the liberal party of the USA has lambasted neo-cons on iraqi invasion, but no body calls each other traitors or bayghairats. similarly, in canada, ultra liberals have thrashed conservative govt of stephen harper on sending troops to afghanistan. conservatives have not retaliated by calling ultra-liberals (the new force of NDP) as traitors.

everyone has right of freedom of expression.

secondly, Mando must stop blaming pakistan for causing trouble in afghanistan. you make us believe that there is no religious extremism in pushtoons. if that were so, why did Orakzai had to recommend peacful co-existence with anarchists in the tribal area? with whom did he sign the accord and why? were they punjabis settled in the tribal areas? highly unlikely to me. did he sign the peace treaty with progressives and nationalists? progressives are in support of karzai and NATO. if they are in support of karzai then why is the USA after them and pressuring pakistan to wipe them out?

also, why did the former mujahid commander hekmatyar declared war on the NATO forces? he went as far as saying that he will side with Talibans against NATO. is this hekmatyar a punjabi, mahajeer or sindi (thanx khan baba for correction)? is he an ISI man? if yes, then why did not ISI court him after afghanistan was liberated from russia? why did not ISI support him in becoming head of the state?

if there are no pro-talibans in pushtoon society then why do western neutral publications continue to tell their governments that due to the accesses by NATO forces and the war lords, more and more locals are turning to talibans?

we have to accept that there is a clear division amongst pushtoons at this time - we have extreme progressives (karzai, nationalists of nwfp, etc.) and extreme rightists / islamists. these islamists, talibanis by nature are present in all segments of pakistani ethnic groups, except perhaps balochis. there is an open conflict between the two. the islamists want pakistani govt to safeguard the interests of talibans and to rid of west supported progressive forces. the progressives call islamists as bayghairats.

Mando, Khan Baba and other nationalists: you don't want to accept the reality. you think that by blaming everything on punjabis and ISI, god will give you all the successes of the world.

have it in writing from me today. if you are able to create an independent pushtoonistan (and don't get me wrong, if it is created i will do everything possible as an individual to keep it a successful state), the pushtoon islamists (the Talibans) will wipe you all progressives clean. to islamists nothing matters more than establishing God's Kingdom on earth - a khialfat if you will.

i will wait for ur logic ladden responses. Mando: kindly no emotionalism.

regardz,

mrs. farah khan khattak

[Tatara]

(Tartara is plane too dumb to be addressed): salamz to all.

Oh, this "Guru Nanaki" slander!

Will write a reply to the platitudes later.

[Khan Baba]

Mando, Khan Baba and perhaps AKhan (Tartara is plane too dumb to be addressed): salamz to all.

you guys are forgetting one thing that is there is no such thing as "baigharat Pushtoons". people have different viewpoint than ur own have to be accepted.

the liberal party of the USA has lambasted neo-cons on iraqi invasion, but no body calls each other traitors or bayghairats. similarly, in canada, ultra liberals have thrashed conservative govt of stephen harper on sending troops to afghanistan. conservatives have not retaliated by calling ultra-liberals (the new force of NDP) as traitors.

everyone has right of freedom of expression.

secondly, Mando must stop blaming pakistan for causing trouble in afghanistan. you make us believe that there is no religious extremism in pushtoons. if that were so, why did Orakzai had to recommend peacful co-existence with anarchists in the tribal area? with whom did he sign the accord and why? were they punjabis settled in the tribal areas? highly unlikely to me. did he sign the peace treaty with progressives and nationalists? progressives are in support of karzai and NATO. if they are in support of karzai then why is the USA after them and pressuring pakistan to wipe them out?

also, why did the former mujahid commander hekmatyar declared war on the NATO forces? he went as far as saying that he will side with Talibans against NATO. is this hekmatyar a punjabi, mahajeer or sindi (thanx khan baba for correction)? is he an ISI man? if yes, then why did not ISI court him after afghanistan was liberated from russia? why did not ISI support him in becoming head of the state?

if there are no pro-talibans in pushtoon society then why do western neutral publications continue to tell their governments that due to the accesses by NATO forces and the war lords, more and more locals are turning to talibans?

we have to accept that there is a clear division amongst pushtoons at this time - we have extreme progressives (karzai, nationalists of nwfp, etc.) and extreme rightists / islamists. these islamists, talibanis by nature are present in all segments of pakistani ethnic groups, except perhaps balochis. there is an open conflict between the two. the islamists want pakistani govt to safeguard the interests of talibans and to rid of west supported progressive forces. the progressives call islamists as bayghairats.

Mando, Khan Baba and other nationalists: you don't want to accept the reality. you think that by blaming everything on punjabis and ISI, god will give you all the successes of the world.

have it in writing from me today. if you are able to create an independent pushtoonistan (and don't get me wrong, if it is created i will do everything possible as an individual to keep it a successful state), the pushtoon islamists (the Talibans) will wipe you all progressives clean. to islamists nothing matters more than establishing God's Kingdom on earth - a khialfat if you will.

i will wait for ur logic ladden responses. Mando: kindly no emotionalism.

regardz,

mrs. farah khan khattak

Farah khor, I am sorry but probably you are not aware of some of the important historical realities like
a. What are the main contents of Durandline Treaty? and various meetings then onward
b. Why didnt Afghanistan accept Pakistan at the time of partition?
c. Why did Pakistan support warlords after Russian withdrawl?
d. Why did Pakistan support Taliban?
e. Why did Pakistan support a Pukhtun ruler in Afghanistan after the fall of Taliban?

Now as far as the islamists are concern, believe me if there is any support in Tribal areas for Taliban, it is not only Islam but their long ties and affinities. As I already mentioned somewhere it is not the first time tribals intervening in Afghanistan affairs, they have done it I think couple of time before as well.
Moreover, Taliban were not that bad as portrayed by western media. Apart from few fanatic steps, it was an excellent regime and most of all, it was a true Pukhtun regime ever in the history of Pukhtuns since 1745.

[Khan Baba]

I have an idea,if we read sach kinda letter's full of hatred and abusive language against pashtoon's then we will post it here for our members to read and reply to these letter's.This is cyber war,we are at war of words,pen,internet and media,so we should not ignore sach kind of letter's,if one true pashtoon will reply to these letters then imagin thousands of pashtoon men and women will feel proud as we have ppl who are defending thier nation on cyberworld.
I remember when i wrote one letter to F.post regarding someone's argument in favour of KBD,then you won't blive as i didn't blive my self,how many e.mails i had recived from pashtoons all arround the world as they were happy with my reply,then i read more nationalists letter from diffrent true pashtoon guy's.So please don't take it easy,this is matter of concern.
Good idea, I fully support you

[MandoKhail]

Good idea, I fully support you
yara as khyberwatch is trully nationalist website at the moment,so,let's use this media to counter media war....let's implement this idea...take initiative or give suggestion...i am going to start this thread.

[MandoKhail]

Taliban were not that bad as portrayed by western media. Apart from few fanatic steps, it was an excellent regime and most of all, it was a true Pukhtun regime ever in the history of Pukhtuns since 1745.
Who cares about west or western ideas? i am not agreed here with you as you calling taliban a true pashtoon regim,if i consider it for a while then this is true pashtoon's sell thier motherland for money,don't mind,creation of taliban,purpose behind it,what strategy taliban were implementing and in who's support it was going? what was pakistan hidden objective's in creating taliban as we have seen what was pakistan biggest demand from taliban.Pakistan war is all about occupied pashtoon land,once this issue is settled then you will see there will be no more war in a region,here,solution of this conflict is wholy based on wishes and demands of pashtoons living in pashtoon belt from bolan to chitral.
Pakistan is doing her best to break the supportive back bone of pashtoon's,if there will be stronger and stabalised Afghanistan and if still pashtoon's will be living a lives of slave's then you understand what would happend,so,niether pakistan/punjabi's consider you pakistani/muslim nor they will let you united in single province with control on resources.
Taliban's whole command and structure was run by on service pakistan army officers with the help of ISI and al-qaida.

[Khan Baba]

Well, it is an established fact that Taliban emerged at their own, when Mullah Omer fought against the tyrant governor of Qandahar. Pakistan started supporting Taliban only when they entered Kabul. The reasons of support are quite obvious and well-known. Pakistan wants a friendly regime in Kabul, the one who doesnt raise the issue of Durandline. That was the reason Amirul Munafiqeen Gen Zaiul Haq was strictly against the Najeebullah regime and supported warlords instead. Pakistan, after whole-heartedly supporting Taliban asked them to recognize Durandline as an International border being beholden to them but to their bad luck, Taliban flatly refused.
Moreover, Mullah Omar was in the process of shifting Afghan Capital from Kabul to Qandahar.
As far as money from OBL or Pakistan is concern, I dont find any problem with that as long as they didnt compromise on their national interest. Afghanistan is not the superpower and hence cant implement unipolar policies. It has to depend on others, others may be US, Russia, OBL or Pakistan, depending the regime associations.

[Afghan]

Hahahahahaha, Yara I read all the posts, veryyyy funny, first of all if anyone thinks that God forbide something like "USI (united states of islam)" or "Ekhwan ul Muslimeen" will be formed ORRRR that Pakistan will lead muslims to form it then he is living in fool's paradise.

I noted one poster saying that a new baloch & pakhtun country would disintegrate becoz of tribal differences and lack of civil services etc. I ask them will the enemy sects shias, sunnis, wahabis, even sub-sects deobandis, barelvis live togather??? No wayyyy, they throw stones at each others shadows, look at Iraq inter-sectarian violence, look at Pakistan, even Paki army & ISI is cleavaged by sects etc etc. Secondly can any one imagine kurds living in such state?? No can one imagine Iraqis and Iranis living togather?? No way andddddd above all u all guys know veryyy well how much all of the world hates people from Indian Gene Pool (i-e Indian, Pakis and Bangalis), one these damns turn to there cheap, wicked and cunnings ways kasam de " Ekhwan ul Muslimeen" na ba khalak toobagar shee.

Secondly, Pakistan is a state which have 52% punjabi population and Afghanistan is a state with 45-60% Pakhtun population thus these two are the majority ethinic groups respectively, consequentlyyyyyyy the respective countries have "Punjabi" and "Pakhtun" character, like Pakistan will act in punjabi manner and Afghanistan in Pakhtun.

Now, whats the history of Afghanistan??? Nooooo power on earth could occupy it, every invader suffered a humilating defeat here, similarly pakhtun areas of present day Pak also offered sternnnnn resistance to any invader.

Now Punjab, has it everrrrrrr resisted or stood against any invader??? Noooo. I would reccomend you to read " Govt. of India Gazetter of 1861" which gives an official account of 1857 rebellion, its says that areas of punjab have been peaceful through the rebellion, there was no interruption of state affairs, the people of Liyah, Chakwal and uumm a few other areas assisted the British with even offered money and arms". Other states of India declared Punjab as "Ghadar e Hind".

Now the problem with punjabis is that they are "Charthey Sooraj ke Pojaree" they favour only those who are ascending to power or in power. Now we come to somewhat recent history, have u seen punjab against any present day ruler??? they change there loyalities as soon as govt changes. When Bhutoo was like a storm and people knew that he will be prime minister, he won all seats in punjab and they supported him butttt when Zia took over who favoured him?? Shahbaz Shareef and Co. who were they??? Punjabis, similarly Musharaf, who is at his side???? Chaudry Shujhat and Chaudry Pervaiz Elahi and Co. who areee they ??? Again punjabis. The people of punjab are quite which depicts there approval, have u heard anyyyy agitation against govt in punjab. Similarly u will see the same after mushy govt. Even now Chaudry Shaujhat have soft corner of MMA in his heart and is not letting there hand too becoz he thinks that after Mushy he will have to grip MMA's tail becoz owing to religious sentiments of people they may be the next rulers.

Now form above examples, punjabis/pakistan obeys anything thats powerful, be it ruler, dictator or USA.When Iran can stand up to USA, N.Korea can stand up to USA evennnnn the weary weak Mullah Omar's Afghanistan stood up to USA, when Saddam's Iraq can stand and confront USA and simply refuse its demands, whyyyyy cant Pakistan???? Becauseeee these damns punjabis have never did that in there 1000 year history. At time of 1857 punjabis elders said that we too dont like Brits but resisting them would harm peace, bring anarchy and blood shed, so we should compromise, thatssss what they said again after 9/11, "saab sey pehlay Pakistan", halaka da khar bacho saab se pehley ISLAM, Qami Ghairath, Nang ao Namos, no country or nation have changed its policy so over night. andddd the fact is that Pakistan and punjabis give a damn to anything named "Qaumi Ghairath" or Ezzath.

How can u expect such nation be leader of "Akhun ul Muslimeen" lolzzzz. My dears Pakistan sees its exsistance in keeping the religioous sentiments enfuriated, the day these things cool down,u will see break up of Pakistan. Thats why they are fighting tooth and nail to keep the ideology alive but now i think the world have knew everything and USA and West wont accept surrender at the hands of terrorists and ISI and Qadeer Khan network and thus give open hand to Pak to export Islamic Bombs and Jihadi Idealogy. Pakistan is pregnant with a change, either it will give birth to 3 new babies (triplets) and get shrinked down or it will die during the labour.

About Afghanistan, it is the mostttt unified country in the world, ifffffff Pakistan faces the same situation as did Afghanistan in 1990s, do u think Pakistan will survive even a week??? No wayyyyy, when there was no National Afghan Army, no Instituations etc etc. Iffffff there is NO ARMY, NO ISI, NO Institutions, will Pakistan survive in that conditions???? No wayyyy.
Afghanistan didnt disintegrate when cats and dogs were urinating in "Afghan Presidential Palace" and there was absolutely NO state machinery at all. Now imagine the day when Cats and Dogs will be urinating in Islamabad's " President House and Prime Minister House" will Pakistan exsist even for an hour that day not to talk of 30 years. Lolzzzzz

My dears wake up, Time is proving things,everything is going to meet its logical end. My guess is that Pakistan won't be as it is after 365 days.

Last thing, history teaches us that its Afghan Pukhtun who have spreaded Islam ( i repear Islam not Suicuide Bomberism, or Kill Westnerism") and inshallah it will be Afghan who will glorify it, it will Greater Afghan who will be the strong & progressive man of Islam and heart of Asia.

One poster said pakhtuns have weak civic society, I must tell them that anyone who is best administer is Pakhtun, when Brits were making Karachi Univ, Punjab Univ, King Edward Medical College and Bombay Univ etc for Indians, Grand Kabul Univ was built in 1932 where top notch people were called from all over the world to make the syllabus (i hope u guys know reason of Iqbal's 1934 visit to Kabul). Indian Pak infrastructure was made by Brits and still exsists while Afghan was indiginous. Wont talk of SherShah Suri or Ahmed Shah or Ghoris etc etc.

I wonder why Pak did pooh in there pants and begged USA to take out its bases when USSR threated to bomb it, why did the Paki Generals pooh again when USA phone called them. Okkkk Mushraf is bad and US boy but what have happened to Pakistan's army of millions of "sachey pakistani" why dont anyone of them stand up???? make a coup,yessss it happens it have happened in many countries of the world, even Colonels have made it not to talk of generals. Noukri saab ko pyari hai na???? Hahahahahaha, Islam wislam giya bharh main.

Hates off to Afghan Lions :)

Nasir Shah Wardak

[Khan Baba]

hahahah welcome, and since when you are wardak,
da mysht na ghaib we aw pa yaw post ke de toal da zra barass owesto.

Secondly, Pakistan is a state which have 52% punjabi population and Afghanistan is a state with 45-60% Pakhtun population thus these two are the majority ethinic groups respectively, consequentlyyyyyyy the respective countries have "Punjabi" and "Pakhtun" character, like Pakistan will act in punjabi manner and Afghanistan in Pakhtun.
Punjabis are the majority in Pakistan and being in the helm of affairs is still understood but the situation on the other side is different. Paradoxically, the minority Parsiwans are virtually ruling the majority Pukhtuns.


Now the problem with punjabis is that they are "Charthey Sooraj ke Pojaree" they favour only those who are ascending to power or in power. Now we come to somewhat recent history, have u seen punjab against any present day ruler??? they change there loyalities as soon as govt changes. When Bhutoo was like a storm and people knew that he will be prime minister, he won all seats in punjab and they supported him butttt when Zia took over who favoured him?? Shahbaz Shareef and Co. who were they??? Punjabis, similarly Musharaf, who is at his side???? Chaudry Shujhat and Chaudry Pervaiz Elahi and Co. who areee they ??? Again punjabis. The people of punjab are quite which depicts there approval, have u heard anyyyy agitation against govt in punjab. Similarly u will see the same after mushy govt. Even now Chaudry Shaujhat have soft corner of MMA in his heart and is not letting there hand too becoz he thinks that after Mushy he will have to grip MMA's tail becoz owing to religious sentiments of people they may be the next rulers.
So dont you think they are more clever, shrewd and astute. Punjabis with this kind of attitude have delivered to their nation. They are getting the best education, they are getting all kind of best health facilities, they have an excellent communication infrastructure, and they spend 80% of the developmental budget on their own people.
What we have got with our principles, dignity etc, miseries, bloodshed, illiteracy, backwardness, extremism?

[MandoKhail]

Hahahahahaha, Yara I read all the posts, veryyyy funny, first of all if anyone thinks that God forbide something like "USI (united states of islam)" or "Ekhwan ul Muslimeen" will be formed ORRRR that Pakistan will lead muslims to form it then he is living in fool's paradise.

I noted one poster saying that a new baloch & pakhtun country would disintegrate becoz of tribal differences and lack of civil services etc. I ask them will the enemy sects shias, sunnis, wahabis, even sub-sects deobandis, barelvis live togather??? No wayyyy, they throw stones at each others shadows, look at Iraq inter-sectarian violence, look at Pakistan, even Paki army & ISI is cleavaged by sects etc etc. Secondly can any one imagine kurds living in such state?? No can one imagine Iraqis and Iranis living togather?? No way andddddd above all u all guys know veryyy well how much all of the world hates people from Indian Gene Pool (i-e Indian, Pakis and Bangalis), one these damns turn to there cheap, wicked and cunnings ways kasam de " Ekhwan ul Muslimeen" na ba khalak toobagar shee.

Secondly, Pakistan is a state which have 52% punjabi population and Afghanistan is a state with 45-60% Pakhtun population thus these two are the majority ethinic groups respectively, consequentlyyyyyyy the respective countries have "Punjabi" and "Pakhtun" character, like Pakistan will act in punjabi manner and Afghanistan in Pakhtun.

Now, whats the history of Afghanistan??? Nooooo power on earth could occupy it, every invader suffered a humilating defeat here, similarly pakhtun areas of present day Pak also offered sternnnnn resistance to any invader.

Now Punjab, has it everrrrrrr resisted or stood against any invader??? Noooo. I would reccomend you to read " Govt. of India Gazetter of 1861" which gives an official account of 1857 rebellion, its says that areas of punjab have been peaceful through the rebellion, there was no interruption of state affairs, the people of Liyah, Chakwal and uumm a few other areas assisted the British with even offered money and arms". Other states of India declared Punjab as "Ghadar e Hind".

Now the problem with punjabis is that they are "Charthey Sooraj ke Pojaree" they favour only those who are ascending to power or in power. Now we come to somewhat recent history, have u seen punjab against any present day ruler??? they change there loyalities as soon as govt changes. When Bhutoo was like a storm and people knew that he will be prime minister, he won all seats in punjab and they supported him butttt when Zia took over who favoured him?? Shahbaz Shareef and Co. who were they??? Punjabis, similarly Musharaf, who is at his side???? Chaudry Shujhat and Chaudry Pervaiz Elahi and Co. who areee they ??? Again punjabis. The people of punjab are quite which depicts there approval, have u heard anyyyy agitation against govt in punjab. Similarly u will see the same after mushy govt. Even now Chaudry Shaujhat have soft corner of MMA in his heart and is not letting there hand too becoz he thinks that after Mushy he will have to grip MMA's tail becoz owing to religious sentiments of people they may be the next rulers.

Now form above examples, punjabis/pakistan obeys anything thats powerful, be it ruler, dictator or USA.When Iran can stand up to USA, N.Korea can stand up to USA evennnnn the weary weak Mullah Omar's Afghanistan stood up to USA, when Saddam's Iraq can stand and confront USA and simply refuse its demands, whyyyyy cant Pakistan???? Becauseeee these damns punjabis have never did that in there 1000 year history. At time of 1857 punjabis elders said that we too dont like Brits but resisting them would harm peace, bring anarchy and blood shed, so we should compromise, thatssss what they said again after 9/11, "saab sey pehlay Pakistan", halaka da khar bacho saab se pehley ISLAM, Qami Ghairath, Nang ao Namos, no country or nation have changed its policy so over night. andddd the fact is that Pakistan and punjabis give a damn to anything named "Qaumi Ghairath" or Ezzath.

How can u expect such nation be leader of "Akhun ul Muslimeen" lolzzzz. My dears Pakistan sees its exsistance in keeping the religioous sentiments enfuriated, the day these things cool down,u will see break up of Pakistan. Thats why they are fighting tooth and nail to keep the ideology alive but now i think the world have knew everything and USA and West wont accept surrender at the hands of terrorists and ISI and Qadeer Khan network and thus give open hand to Pak to export Islamic Bombs and Jihadi Idealogy. Pakistan is pregnant with a change, either it will give birth to 3 new babies (triplets) and get shrinked down or it will die during the labour.

About Afghanistan, it is the mostttt unified country in the world, ifffffff Pakistan faces the same situation as did Afghanistan in 1990s, do u think Pakistan will survive even a week??? No wayyyyy, when there was no National Afghan Army, no Instituations etc etc. Iffffff there is NO ARMY, NO ISI, NO Institutions, will Pakistan survive in that conditions???? No wayyyy.
Afghanistan didnt disintegrate when cats and dogs were urinating in "Afghan Presidential Palace" and there was absolutely NO state machinery at all. No imagine the day when Cats and Dogs will be urinating in Islamabad's " President House and Prime Minister House" will Pakistan exsist even for an hour that day not to talk of 30 years. Lolzzzzz

My dears wake up, Time is proving things,everything is going to meet its logical end. My guess is that Pakistan won't be as it is after 365 days.

Last thing, history teaches us that its Afghan Pukhtun who have spreaded Islam ( i repear Islam not Suicuide Bomberism, or Kill Westnerism") and inshallah it will be Afghan who will glorify it, it will Greater Afghan who will be the strong & progressive man of Islam and heart of Asia.

One poster said pakhtuns have weak civic society, I must tell them that anyone who is best administer is Pakhtun, when Brits were making Karachi Univ, Punjab Univ, King Edward Medical College and Bombay Univ etc for Indians, Grand Kabul Univ was built in 1932 where top notch people were called from all over the world to make the syllabus (i hope u guys know reason of Iqbal's 1934 visit to Kabul). Indian Pak infrastructure was made by Brits and still exsists while Afghan was indiginous. Wont talk of SherShah Suri or Ahmed Shah or Ghoris etc etc.

I wonder why Pak did pooh in there pants and begged USA to take out its bases when USSR threated to bomb it, why did the Paki Generals pooh again when USA phone called them. Okkkk Mushraf is bad and US boy but what have happened to Pakistan's army of millions of "sachey pakistani" why dont anyone of them stand up???? make a coup,yessss it happens it have happened in many countries of the world, even Colonels have made it not to talk of generals. Noukri saab ko pyari hai na???? Hahahahahaha, Islam wislam giya bharh main.

Hates off to Afghan Lions :)

Nasir Shah Wardak
Wa kheroona...dagha dai....khan baba oss teeng sha....:icon_biggrin:

Man where you been? i need you in nationalist lebortary for some experiments..will you assist me?:)

[MandoKhail]

Well, it is an established fact that Taliban emerged at their own, when Mullah Omer fought against the tyrant governor of Qandahar. Pakistan started supporting Taliban only when they entered Kabul. The reasons of support are quite obvious and well-known. Pakistan wants a friendly regime in Kabul, the one who doesnt raise the issue of Durandline. That was the reason Amirul Munafiqeen Gen Zaiul Haq was strictly against the Najeebullah regime and supported warlords instead. Pakistan, after whole-heartedly supporting Taliban asked them to recognize Durandline as an International border being beholden to them but to their bad luck, Taliban flatly refused.
Moreover, Mullah Omar was in the process of shifting Afghan Capital from Kabul to Qandahar.
As far as money from OBL or Pakistan is concern, I dont find any problem with that as long as they didnt compromise on their national interest. Afghanistan is not the superpower and hence cant implement unipolar policies. It has to depend on others, others may be US, Russia, OBL or Pakistan, depending the regime associations.
Khan baba here again i am not agreed with you on creation of taliban,Taliban was a creation of ISI+CIA+saudi and argentinian oil companies joint venture,americans got thier intrests,pakistan got her intrests,but in mid of this great game pakistani ISI thinked they can fool americans and try to take control of taliban which was like a snatching piece of meat from lion mouth,then there proxy war started between CIA and ISI which resulted in fall of taliban,CIA has traped pakistani high ranking officers in qondooz sieg where they were allowed to fly in pakistan air force transport planes just on one condition and that was pakistan was bent to her knees and forced to do as what americans will command them to do.

Yara it is long topic to discuss...let me come back.

[Khan Baba]

OBL was the most lucky one, who managed to make the Taliban beholden to him.
As far as Pakistan's support of US war against terror is concern, so that was inevitable, I am sure any ruler whether democratic or military would have done the same, you know no one in Pakistan can dare to take "Punga" with US Might.

[Khan Baba]

Wa kheroona...dagha dai....khan baba oss teeng sha....
Mara de de nar shee, razee de, no khair de za ba otakhtam.

[MandoKhail]

Mara de de nar shee, razee de, no khair de za ba otakhtam.
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......hahah hahaha....gora khyaal kawa nationalistano tar ossa zaan margee breedoona na de payel karree:tongue:

[Afghan]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......hahah hahaha....gora khyaal kawa nationalistano tar ossa zaan margee breedoona na de payel karree:tongue:

Ya halakano saam shey saam, da zma pshee sha thaso sa gadey wadey wayay, za laag naozgara yam, che laag sa soorath sham nu bya ba thaso dwaroh sara thora speena kom :hoonh:

[Afghan]

Mara de de nar shee, razee de, no khair de za ba otakhtam.

Lolzzz, Khan Baba nu sta sa khyal de che za da cha a wyarey na rathlam, rombay/lombrey khabara da da che laag naozgara wom, dwaimah da che daltha ke zaney kasan dasey di che da haghwee posts ramandey landey bandey orrh bal ki ao blood pressure mey war sara shoot she ao lewaney kegam, ( you all know better which people and what kinda posts I am refering to... :D ) Anyhow now I have decided just to read selected threads not even click those threads where I suspect any blood pressure shooting material :tongue:

Ao wrekhtiya Khan Baba da ratha wo waya, da thaso che kala online yay nu sthaso noom sara yaw sthorey jorh vi, da waley??? Anything special about it??? Khair os ba inshallah thag ra thag pael kom ao da KW larey ba hawarom.

With lots of love for u all.

Nasir Shah Wardak

[Khan Baba]

Yaar wallah dade storee kho mata patha nishta, I thought, only I can see this star. May be I am someone special.
Zahid / Swatian can give the real reason.
And dont use too much of salt, control your BP man, read all posts with patience and be a cool man, if you think someone is wrong then give a rejoinder/rebuttle with logics.

[MandoKhail]

Lolzzz, Khan Baba nu sta sa khyal de che za da cha a wyarey na rathlam, rombay/lombrey khabara da da che laag naozgara wom, dwaimah da che daltha ke zaney kasan dasey di che da haghwee posts ramandey landey bandey orrh bal ki ao blood pressure mey war sara shoot she ao lewaney kegam, ( you all know better which people and what kinda posts I am refering to... :D ) Anyhow now I have decided just to read selected threads not even click those threads where I suspect any blood pressure shooting material :tongue:

Ao wrekhtiya Khan Baba da ratha wo waya, da thaso che kala online yay nu sthaso noom sara yaw sthorey jorh vi, da waley??? Anything special about it??? Khair os ba inshallah thag ra thag pael kom ao da KW larey ba hawarom.

With lots of love for u all.

Nasir Shah Wardak
Oo da zrrah sara..khair dai..zma hum tempreture laka da lmar shee chi awtay bawtay lwalama mgr haosela..first try to convince them by logic if still they dont understand then use kotak which is good for sach ppl mental health.:icon_biggrin:

Don't care about any one just care for what you have in your mind and heart for pashtoon cause.

[Roots]

Farah khor, I am sorry but probably you are not aware of some of the important historical realities like
a. What are the main contents of Durandline Treaty? and various meetings then onward
b. Why didnt Afghanistan accept Pakistan at the time of partition?
c. Why did Pakistan support warlords after Russian withdrawl?
d. Why did Pakistan support Taliban?
e. Why did Pakistan support a Pukhtun ruler in Afghanistan after the fall of Taliban?

Now as far as the islamists are concern, believe me if there is any support in Tribal areas for Taliban, it is not only Islam but their long ties and affinities. As I already mentioned somewhere it is not the first time tribals intervening in Afghanistan affairs, they have done it I think couple of time before as well.
Moreover, Taliban were not that bad as portrayed by western media. Apart from few fanatic steps, it was an excellent regime and most of all, it was a true Pukhtun regime ever in the history of Pukhtuns since 1745.

Khan Baba, salam to you:

i know all the history of afghanistan, because i am afghan by descent and not, as many pakistani "pukhtoon nationalists" on this site believe, a pakistani descent. just for your information, only my mother stayed in pakistan for sometimes when she was invited by a mujahid leader to work for afghan refugee women and children. my father and i never lived in pakistan.

when i started my debate i wanted to prove that there are two distinct school of thoughts in pushtoons - the nationalists and the islamists (talibans). unfortunately, nationalist pushtoons like mandokhail don't want to realize that. to them everything should be blamed on pakistan, isi, punjabis. they derive their energy from hate. (no hard feelings Mando, but this is the reality).

by writing this paragraph about talibans and more posts later on, you have proven that i was right. if you have a good feeling for talibans (and believe me i do too, but i did not express them on purpose to drive my point home) then there must be many hundreds and thousands other pushtoons too who believe the same. many of them must be willing enough to wage a "jihad" against foreign powers in afghanistan.

there is a definite divide amongst our ranks, but afghan leaders like karzai and hate-mongering nationalists do not want to accept the reality.

regardz,

stasso khor

mrs. farah khan khattak

[MandoKhail]

if you kindly explain why you think nationalist's are preaching hate? why you think the same as punjabi's and punjabi media?i will reply to your pro-punjabi poem but first answer these questions.
you can seek help from aneela and lyla:icon_biggrin:

waiting for your reply.

[farzad khan Armani]

roots bibi,
so pashtun nationalist preaching hate and punjabi daal khor are doing good by killing pashtuns in pashtunistan.
a punjabizad pashtana like you can close eyes but a pure pashtun will never close his/her eyes for what is happening in pashtunkhwa.

in my view nationalism is ,,ibadath,,,,,,,,,,cuz to help,defend or fighting for your nation ,s rights is ibadath,,,,,,,

punjabis are stealing our sources from us and here you defend thiefs and the enemy of pashtuns.

you may have busines or other interests in punjabistan but pls do,nt blame pashtun nationalists.
my grand father was nationalist then my father and now me and inshalah my son too.

if you understand pashtu you will understand this ,,shair of one pashtun nationalist

che wanahlay baadshahi da bal ikhtyar ke
ao pa khpal ikhtyar ke ogay gada ha ye.
but for this you need pashtun spirits

[Khan Baba]

by writing this paragraph about talibans and more posts later on, you have proven that i was right. if you have a good feeling for talibans (and believe me i do too, but i did not express them on purpose to drive my point home) then there must be many hundreds and thousands other pushtoons too who believe the same. many of them must be willing enough to wage a "jihad" against foreign powers in afghanistan.

there is a definite divide amongst our ranks, but afghan leaders like karzai and hate-mongering nationalists do not want to accept the reality.

My reasons of liking taliban may be different from yours. I like them because:
a. They all were pure Pukhtun blood.
b. they brought complete peace in a war torn Afghanistan.
c. They were in the process of bringing the Capital back to Qandahar. And that means the domination of pukhtuns.
d. Notwithstanding Pakistan's full support and backing, they never compromised on the interest of Pukhtuns.
e. It was purely an Islamic govt though some of their fanatic steps are highly objectionable.
About the hate, I have already discussed that in some other thread so wont dwell much upon it.

[MandoKhail]

My reasons of liking taliban may be different from yours. I like them because:
a. They all were pure Pukhtun blood.
b. they brought complete peace in a war torn Afghanistan.
c. They were in the process of bringing the Capital back to Qandahar. And that means the domination of pukhtuns.
d. Notwithstanding Pakistan's full support and backing, they never compromised on the interest of Pukhtuns.
e. It was purely an Islamic govt though some of their fanatic steps are highly objectionable.
About the hate, I have already discussed that in some other thread so wont dwell much upon it.
khan baba you are near to right track but it needs...lag la yaw bal sara maghza jangawal ghwarree.:icon_biggrin: ..let me come back from work...